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Aug 21, 2008 at 11:47 PM CDT
View Comments: 28
Toast Time: Timeout for a Timeout
Posted by: toast
Kansas City, MO
Name:
Jon Corley
Position:
Writer
About The Author
Jon Corley is a long tenured Team 3D writer who currently heads 3D.NY's Website Staff
I've been reading some of the various team sites the past couple of days and stumbled across an interesting idea that I felt was worthy of further investigation, the possible addition of a timeout to the CGS Live Broadcast. As it currently stands, there is no timeout allotted to either the GM's or players and I think that may be worth changing. Although we sometimes see a slight break in the action for a GM intervention, we have yet to see a true timeout and what affect it could have on the outcome of a match.
Many professional sports have a timeout, or a variation of it, and I think the CGS should take a serious look at adding it to the GM's toolbox. The importance of the timeout cannot be underestimated. Whether it is called to talk strategy, inspire, or slow down your opponents, timeout usage has become an art form in modern day professional sports. Time and time again I have seen coaches and players strategically call a timeout at a pivotal point in a game in hopes of throwing their opponents off their game. Basketball has become notorious for their strategic timeout usage over the years and it has evolved into one of the most important elements of the game. Using a timeout correctly can have a tremendous impact on the outcome of a match, for either better or worse.
Although it sounds great in theory, the implementation of a timeout would be tricky to say the least. Some games such as FIFA could easily accommodate the addition of a timeout while others would be hard pressed to find time for a timeout. Just like in soccer, calling a timeout in the middle of a FIFA match would be easy as pie. The players could just stop the match whenever they pleased as long as a shot wasn't being taken and they had possession of the ball. However, calling a timeout in the other games is where the issues start to get a little more complicated.
If the GM's were able to call a timeout whenever they pleased, they could easily call one mid-round in CS and if timed correctly, get a good look at the bombsite defense of the opposition. Obviously, this would give the attacking team a tremendous advantage and all but negate the concept of fair play. The league would have to mandate when timeouts were allowed and how many were allotted in order to circumvent issues such as this.
Safeguards must be in place to prevent possible disputes resulting from an untimely timeout being called. Counter-Strike would need to be limited to timeouts only after the conclusion of a round, no questions asked. Furthermore, Dead Or Alive 4 would need to be in the same boat, only during the time in between rounds could a timeout be called. Contrarily, Forza has no rounds or dead time and is a continuous race all the way till completion. It is simply a matter of whether or not play should be interrupted. In my opinion, timeouts shouldn't be allowed during a Forza race simply for the fact that it completely interrupts the flow of the race and the broadcast. The CGS is a television show and to just bring the race to a halt at any point just seems a bit ridiculous to me.
Logistics aside, I think that the ability for GM's to call timeout would only further legitimize an already established sport. Athletes often times find themselves overwhelmed by intense situations and it is the mangers responsibility and obligation to settle their players in hopes of preventing a meltdown. By adding a timeout or two to the GM's bag of tricks, we could potentially see some 5-0's prevented and closer matches which would be enjoyed by fans and players alike.
Many professional sports have a timeout, or a variation of it, and I think the CGS should take a serious look at adding it to the GM's toolbox. The importance of the timeout cannot be underestimated. Whether it is called to talk strategy, inspire, or slow down your opponents, timeout usage has become an art form in modern day professional sports. Time and time again I have seen coaches and players strategically call a timeout at a pivotal point in a game in hopes of throwing their opponents off their game. Basketball has become notorious for their strategic timeout usage over the years and it has evolved into one of the most important elements of the game. Using a timeout correctly can have a tremendous impact on the outcome of a match, for either better or worse.
Although it sounds great in theory, the implementation of a timeout would be tricky to say the least. Some games such as FIFA could easily accommodate the addition of a timeout while others would be hard pressed to find time for a timeout. Just like in soccer, calling a timeout in the middle of a FIFA match would be easy as pie. The players could just stop the match whenever they pleased as long as a shot wasn't being taken and they had possession of the ball. However, calling a timeout in the other games is where the issues start to get a little more complicated.
If the GM's were able to call a timeout whenever they pleased, they could easily call one mid-round in CS and if timed correctly, get a good look at the bombsite defense of the opposition. Obviously, this would give the attacking team a tremendous advantage and all but negate the concept of fair play. The league would have to mandate when timeouts were allowed and how many were allotted in order to circumvent issues such as this.
Logistics aside, I think that the ability for GM's to call timeout would only further legitimize an already established sport. Athletes often times find themselves overwhelmed by intense situations and it is the mangers responsibility and obligation to settle their players in hopes of preventing a meltdown. By adding a timeout or two to the GM's bag of tricks, we could potentially see some 5-0's prevented and closer matches which would be enjoyed by fans and players alike.
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raspberryHEAVENboy
Posts: 580
Location: MELBOURNE
dc5r
Posts: 277
Location: shopping with your little sister
Hey we're losing let's call timeout to completely break the other player/team's momentum for free. A huge part of skill in gaming is being able to adapt and adjust your tactics on the fly, if you need a timeout for tea to talk with your GM on how you're gonna get out of the grave you just dug then you don't deserve to be on the stage, and goes to show how much(little) confidence a GM has in their players to handle the given situation themselves. Not to mention the already tight time schedule the CGS has. We've already got matches going on simultaneously with the GM often leaving their CS team alone to concentrate on supporting the console players. It's unnecessary and there's nothing to gain that can't be done already during/in between rounds i.e. moto's pep boosts, lake's screaming, etc.
Another terrible idea by Toast.
Another terrible idea by Toast.
theultimategamer
Posts: 2492
Location: Jasper
CGS Forum Admin
Icing the player? Hmmm.... very interesting
(ok, just to explain. Icing the player, is like using the term icing the kicker in football.)
first official, newoptimeranomplexina fan.
Insider Esports ftw!!
First ever CGS live caller!!
(ok, just to explain. Icing the player, is like using the term icing the kicker in football.)
first official, newoptimeranomplexina fan.
Insider Esports ftw!!
First ever CGS live caller!!
moto
Posts: 1414
Location:
Team GM
Hey we're losing let's call timeout to completely break the other player/team's momentum for free. A huge part of skill in gaming is being able to adapt and adjust your tactics on the fly, if you need a timeout for tea to talk with your GM on how you're gonna get out of the grave you just dug then you don't deserve to be on the stage, and goes to show how much(little) confidence a GM has in their players to handle the given situation themselves. Not to mention the alread...y tight time schedule the CGS has. We've already got matches going on simultaneously with the GM often leaving their CS team alone to concentrate on supporting the console players. It's unnecessary and there's nothing to gain that can't be done already during/in between rounds i.e. moto's pep boosts, lake's screaming, etc.
Another terrible idea by Toast.
#2 Everything you just described happens in Sports all the time. I'd like a timeout personally.
Another terrible idea by Toast.
ComeBackDan
Posts: 1104
Location:
Pro Gamer
Hey we're losing let's call timeout to completely break the other player/team's momentum for free. A huge part of skill in gaming is being able to adapt and adjust your tactics on the fly, if you need a timeout for tea to talk with your GM on how you're gonna get out of the grave you just dug then you don't deserve to be on the stage, and goes to show how much(little) confidence a GM has in their players to handle the given situation themselves. Not to mention the alread...y tight time schedule the CGS has. We've already got matches going on simultaneously with the GM often leaving their CS team alone to concentrate on supporting the console players. It's unnecessary and there's nothing to gain that can't be done already during/in between rounds i.e. moto's pep boosts, lake's screaming, etc.
Another terrible idea by Toast.
#2Another terrible idea by Toast.
False. Time outs should definitely be allowed. This is used all the time in sports and e-sports is no different. For CS, DOA, and FIFA there are obvious uses. Not so much in forza. Another epic idea by Toast per usual.
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DchozN
Posts: 1461
Location: Carbondale
Staff Member
Timeouts have it's advantages and disadvantages with anything else, but to be frank it just eats up too much time. That's typically the purpose in stealing momentum from the opponent and gathering your troops if say they go down early on (or it can drawback and you find yourself giving the opposition some time to relax and drink their Gatora- Mountain Dew). However, as CGS is in the obvious TV realm, the subsequent time limits that have to be adhered to supercedes all (i.e. CS broadcast was cut into with Dead or Alive 4 or FIFA matches to keep the show under 90 minutes...), so timeouts are thrown out the window from a production stand point at its current state.
Maybe some day if it's agreed upon by all but at the present rate of things I seriously doubt something like this will be implemented.
Maybe some day if it's agreed upon by all but at the present rate of things I seriously doubt something like this will be implemented.
DchozN.com - Soon
Coolsvilla
Posts: 666
Location: Tulsa
Pro Gamer
Honestly, I think timeouts in video games are a bad idea. In concept, it sounds nice- you get to talk to your player (s) and let them know what's up, help them refocus, and get their heads back in the game. However, I find that a large part of every game (except for the possibility of Forza) is momentum and, by calling a timeout, you can disrupt a team's momentum.
In Doa, when you're playing and doing poorly, you start to panic and all you can think about is not getting 5-0'ed or putting more points on the board instead of focusing on the actual fighting. If I was in that position and my GM called a timeout, that would break that mindset and be really helpful to put myself back in the game. However, think about the matches when you're the one winning. If my opponent is more worried about trying to not get 5-0'ed than thinking about the actual match that's going on at that moment, that's great for me. I want them to be afraid and not focus on what's happening.
In CS, I've seen a few teams during the season simply fall apart and get demolished round after round because they were being pushed by the other team. If a timeout was called, they may be able to pull themselves together because of a pep talk but is that really fair to put the breaks on the momentum the other team created?
As for Fifa, from what I've seen and been told, you can't exactly pause in the middle of it. It ruins passes, setups, and causes other issues.
It's a double edged sword that works both ways- you could either be the one that wants a disrupt in that momentum or that wants the match to keep going while you're on a roll. I know that you could argue the point that other sports like football and baseball have timeouts but it just doesn't feel the same in video games. Yeah it would be nice if Dave could call that timeout when I'm losing badly to help me get focused again but getting inside the head of your opponent is part of many players' games and timeouts stop that and I wouldn't want the other GM to be able to call a timeout while I'm busy winning.
In Doa, when you're playing and doing poorly, you start to panic and all you can think about is not getting 5-0'ed or putting more points on the board instead of focusing on the actual fighting. If I was in that position and my GM called a timeout, that would break that mindset and be really helpful to put myself back in the game. However, think about the matches when you're the one winning. If my opponent is more worried about trying to not get 5-0'ed than thinking about the actual match that's going on at that moment, that's great for me. I want them to be afraid and not focus on what's happening.
In CS, I've seen a few teams during the season simply fall apart and get demolished round after round because they were being pushed by the other team. If a timeout was called, they may be able to pull themselves together because of a pep talk but is that really fair to put the breaks on the momentum the other team created?
As for Fifa, from what I've seen and been told, you can't exactly pause in the middle of it. It ruins passes, setups, and causes other issues.
It's a double edged sword that works both ways- you could either be the one that wants a disrupt in that momentum or that wants the match to keep going while you're on a roll. I know that you could argue the point that other sports like football and baseball have timeouts but it just doesn't feel the same in video games. Yeah it would be nice if Dave could call that timeout when I'm losing badly to help me get focused again but getting inside the head of your opponent is part of many players' games and timeouts stop that and I wouldn't want the other GM to be able to call a timeout while I'm busy winning.
phunk
Posts: 278
Location: Baltimore
The only problem with this article:
You can't call a time out in soccer.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
You can't call a time out in soccer.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
KingChopz
Posts: 410
Location: Paterson
^SupreMe
Posts: 1216
Location: Vancouver
eXcRainman20
Posts: 88
Location:
I understand how timeouts could make things more interesting for viewers, but as a gamer I think it's a terrible idea. I have been playing games and also watching professional gaming all my life, thinking about adding in timeouts would be like adding commercials to a TV show right before the good part, most people don't like it. It will slow things down which is a HUGE downside.. gaming is a fast non-stop sport. I know they could make it so you could only call timeouts at certain times, but I see no way they could do it that I would see it as an upside. It WILL ruin momentum in games, which is definitely a MAJOR part of gaming. Honestly, whether they admit it or not, GM's WILL at one point or another use it to kill momentum. In my opinion, it will take away a part of gaming that should never be touched. For those of you thinking timeouts should be added just so it helps people look at it as any other sport.. gaming is a unique sport that doesn't need the same things as in other sports.
KingChopz
Posts: 410
Location: Paterson
[quote|9]
Timeouts ruin the momentum of winning a few rounds in a row that one team may have,
#10Timeouts ruin the momentum of winning a few rounds in a row that one team may have,
That would be the point of the timeouts in CS. One team would call a time out so they can regroup while the other team's moment dies out.
I still think it would be just a cheap move.
http://www.noobflicks.com/watch/1992/bra...
raspberryHEAVENboy
Posts: 580
Location: MELBOURNE
Referenced post #11 by eXcRainman20
I understand how timeouts could make things more interesting for viewers, but as a gamer I think it's a terrible idea. I have been playing games and also watching professional gaming all my life, thinking about adding in timeouts would be like adding commercials to a TV show right before the good part, most people don't like it. It will slow things down which is a HUGE downside.. gaming is a fast non-stop sport. I know they could make it so you could only call timeouts at certain times..., but I see no way they could do it that I would see it as an upside. It WILL ruin momentum in games, which is definitely a MAJOR part of gaming. Honestly, whether they admit it or not, GM's WILL at one point or another use it to kill momentum. In my opinion, it will take away a part of gaming that should never be touched. For those of you thinking timeouts should be added just so it helps people look at it as any other sport.. gaming is a unique sport that doesn't need the same things as in other sports.schup dood thx 4 not being another mindless col drone that supports everything cgs and col related like a ***** ass
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seb
Posts: 84
Location: US
no
phunk
Posts: 278
Location: Baltimore
no
~~
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
~~
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
zps
Posts: 560
Location: Waterford
They already made CS:S matches go lightning fast to fit in 90 minutes. Don't think they could afford timeouts, not at this point anyway.
peawok
Posts: 2959
Location:
Staff Member
You can't call timeouts in Soccer (Football).
Silly toast!
Michael Fleming
http://LACompLexity.thecgs.com
http://www.insideresports.com - #insideresports
Silly toast!
Michael Fleming
http://LACompLexity.thecgs.com
http://www.insideresports.com - #insideresports
smackdown
Posts: 26
Location: San Diego
Staff Member
I think timeouts should be used in world final matches, and possibly region playoff matches. I don't know if I want to sit through timeouts in the regular season. The momentum argument isn't really valid. That's the only reason you would call a timeout, to keep your team from getting slaughtered (there's not clock to stop). It could potentially reverse blowout situations, and allow for better adjustments, which leads to better competition, which leads to more exciting matches. Each team should get one per franchise match, lasting two minutes, and the timeout huddles should be mic'd, so we are less tempted to change the channel. DOAF could seek DOAM advice and vice versa, CS team could anti-strat better, FIFA players could take a little cat nap, and Forza players... could piss each other off. But most importantly, it would make the GMs look a lot more useful.
Signature has been nuked due to inappropriate content.
3D_method
Posts: 332
Location: ls habra
Pro Gamer
count me for timeouts ;D
Member of Team 3D NY
CS: Source Player
Member of Team 3D NY
CS: Source Player
disturbd
Posts: 39
Location: Porto
Part of the skill in gaming is just that - making choices, either tatical or whatever, when facing unpredictable circumstances.
Also i think the games would be much more boring to watch.
Also i think the games would be much more boring to watch.
crunchtime
Posts: 109
Location: Kansas City
Staff Member
Amen KCMO broheim,
I understand that some of you think the idea of a timeout is cheap and could potentially ruin a player/team/franchise's momentum but...
*** that is the point people! ***
Professional sports do it all the time whether it be cheap or not, and in my opinion, only intensifies the stress and excitement of an eventual outcome. GMs need more tools on stage and if the 'momentum' player is beating the opponent into the ground, it shouldn't matter if you take a break or not if you're better than the opposition. It just seems like some are afraid it would be a widely used excuse for players if the game outcome changes. Time outs could work like this:
One timeout per franchise - Used at any time after a divisional game or game ROUND (avoiding the pitfalls of the specific game types. IE after rounds in CSS, DOA and FIFA, or after divisional matchups, which would again work for all games, including before or after Forza races.) The idea of a timeout couldn't work at ANY time, like in the middle of a race, during a round etc, people are right to think that wouldn't make sense.
Allotted time for a timeout - Shouldn't be more than 2-4 minutes, and that's being generous. DTV shows could go to commercial break for once called for the people who think they are boring etc (Which I am having a hard time understanding how changing the pace of a blow out/close game in favor of -your- team could be that boring). Also, is 1-3 minutes of viewing going to go that slow for you? Shows will incorporate color commentary from experts (Highfive 519Wheat and Redeye... yesss even Wendel =) to really explain what is best for the team who called it at that very point, not to mention other ways to divert your attention from any boring visuals. That's the power of editing people!
To smackdown's response, for TV purposes having it would be a good idea to have the GM or area wired to listen in when the timeout is called.
There are just so many things you can do with it and I really think it could be another dynamic to our sport. I think for our league to stand strong as a sport, it's going to eventually have to adopt some general ideas from other popular established sports to get casual/new viewers to relate and understand what we are trying to do. The league by itself is unique enough that adding some other concepts wont hurt it. Obviously that's just my opinion.
I understand that some of you think the idea of a timeout is cheap and could potentially ruin a player/team/franchise's momentum but...
*** that is the point people! ***
Professional sports do it all the time whether it be cheap or not, and in my opinion, only intensifies the stress and excitement of an eventual outcome. GMs need more tools on stage and if the 'momentum' player is beating the opponent into the ground, it shouldn't matter if you take a break or not if you're better than the opposition. It just seems like some are afraid it would be a widely used excuse for players if the game outcome changes. Time outs could work like this:
One timeout per franchise - Used at any time after a divisional game or game ROUND (avoiding the pitfalls of the specific game types. IE after rounds in CSS, DOA and FIFA, or after divisional matchups, which would again work for all games, including before or after Forza races.) The idea of a timeout couldn't work at ANY time, like in the middle of a race, during a round etc, people are right to think that wouldn't make sense.
Allotted time for a timeout - Shouldn't be more than 2-4 minutes, and that's being generous. DTV shows could go to commercial break for once called for the people who think they are boring etc (Which I am having a hard time understanding how changing the pace of a blow out/close game in favor of -your- team could be that boring). Also, is 1-3 minutes of viewing going to go that slow for you? Shows will incorporate color commentary from experts (Highfive 519Wheat and Redeye... yesss even Wendel =) to really explain what is best for the team who called it at that very point, not to mention other ways to divert your attention from any boring visuals. That's the power of editing people!
To smackdown's response, for TV purposes having it would be a good idea to have the GM or area wired to listen in when the timeout is called.
There are just so many things you can do with it and I really think it could be another dynamic to our sport. I think for our league to stand strong as a sport, it's going to eventually have to adopt some general ideas from other popular established sports to get casual/new viewers to relate and understand what we are trying to do. The league by itself is unique enough that adding some other concepts wont hurt it. Obviously that's just my opinion.
8-bit^GSR
Posts: 266
Location: New York
A certain amount of timeouts like one or two per team and only 2-5 minutes long would be fine.
--Perfect Practice Makes Perfect
--Gamertag- PilotLN23
--SteamID- 0:0:16673486
--Perfect Practice Makes Perfect
--Gamertag- PilotLN23
--SteamID- 0:0:16673486
Ez-
Posts: 711
Location: Tucson
Staff Member
I'd say 2 min timeouts should be max (maybe even 30 sec - 1 min would be fine)
But like I said on thecgs.com post, tt could make for some really good television drama. Just get some camera's and mics into a CS huddle, and let emotions fly.
LA CompLexity Graphic Designer
But like I said on thecgs.com post, tt could make for some really good television drama. Just get some camera's and mics into a CS huddle, and let emotions fly.
LA CompLexity Graphic Designer
DaveCheppelle
Posts: 195
Location: Savannah
Pro Gamer
timeouts sound good for doa even though its kinda short
I thank God For the hard times and spots hes gotten me through, 3D!lets go all the way!
I thank God For the hard times and spots hes gotten me through, 3D!lets go all the way!
BigLighthouse
Posts: 83
Location:
esports have been just fine without timeouts untill now. its not broken so please dont try to fix it.
people outside of the CGS come up with enough ammunition to throw at it without adding crazy ideas like this. a good player should be able to stay calm and focused without having to take a quick break to chat with the boss. In the UK i dont see that many sports with timeouts anyways, the idea makes no sense to me. granted there are some, but the major things going on like ""soccer"", rugby etc have set breaks and thats it. If a team cant take it untill the half time then thats tough ***** isnt it, because thats what theyr being paid to do.
if you take counterstrike, being a team game its slightly different to the large influence of team play, forza aswell to some extent i guess. in the draft i might want to pick a player who i know can keep a calm head under pressure, and not only that keep the other guys on the side in the game, or a player who can see whats going round with the rounds, why they are losing and fix the problem. whats the point of these players if u can just take a pause and have the GM and the rest of the team point it out to you. There is a limit to how much of the CGS matches should hinge on franchise as a whole vs individual performance, get what i mean??
and hey, what a GM has to say, he can say without stopping the game, i mean hes standing right over their shoulders!! people can listen AND play, its not just women who can multitask!!!!
Oh and stop calling it a sport. esport.. yeh ok thats chillin with me, but gaming isnt a sport and trying to make it into one is in my opinion a little destructive in taking gaming somewhere that it just doesnt need to be. dont dumb down gaming becuase u want people to watch it, because what are they really watching then?
Last modified on 8/29/2008 at 1:50 pm EST
people outside of the CGS come up with enough ammunition to throw at it without adding crazy ideas like this. a good player should be able to stay calm and focused without having to take a quick break to chat with the boss. In the UK i dont see that many sports with timeouts anyways, the idea makes no sense to me. granted there are some, but the major things going on like ""soccer"", rugby etc have set breaks and thats it. If a team cant take it untill the half time then thats tough ***** isnt it, because thats what theyr being paid to do.
if you take counterstrike, being a team game its slightly different to the large influence of team play, forza aswell to some extent i guess. in the draft i might want to pick a player who i know can keep a calm head under pressure, and not only that keep the other guys on the side in the game, or a player who can see whats going round with the rounds, why they are losing and fix the problem. whats the point of these players if u can just take a pause and have the GM and the rest of the team point it out to you. There is a limit to how much of the CGS matches should hinge on franchise as a whole vs individual performance, get what i mean??
and hey, what a GM has to say, he can say without stopping the game, i mean hes standing right over their shoulders!! people can listen AND play, its not just women who can multitask!!!!
Oh and stop calling it a sport. esport.. yeh ok thats chillin with me, but gaming isnt a sport and trying to make it into one is in my opinion a little destructive in taking gaming somewhere that it just doesnt need to be. dont dumb down gaming becuase u want people to watch it, because what are they really watching then?
Last modified on 8/29/2008 at 1:50 pm EST
edit: n1 article
Last modified on 8/22/2008 at 12:00 am EST
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